Open in new window / Try shogun cloud
--- Log opened Sat Dec 28 00:00:25 2013
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shogun-buildbotbuild #663 of nightly_default is complete: Failure [failed notebooks]  Build details are at
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@wikingbesser82: ping?11:23
besser82wiking: pong!11:24
@wikingbesser82: ok so i've skid the article you've sent11:24
besser82wiking: and what do you say?11:24
besser82wiking: What's your oppinion11:24
@wikingbesser82: one thing we should remember: there was a plan to move slowly from SGReferencedData to std::shared_ptr11:24
besser82wiking: shared_ptr like non-copyable?11:25
@wikingbesser82: it's like the shared pointer in boost11:25
@wikingbesser82: that does automatic reference counting + freeing11:26
besser82wiking: I see  :D11:26
besser82wiking: Nice idea11:26
@wikingso i dont know how that would work out with this idea11:26
@wikingas there it uses auto_ptr11:26
besser82wiking: we possibly can change that,  I need to look at the specs of shared_ptr && auto_ptr11:27
@wikingbesser82: yeah i've had a quick look they not compatible :P11:28
besser82wiking: damn11:28
@wikingbut then again11:28
besser82wiking: yes11:28
@wikingif we put every class into shared_ptr11:28
@wikingit's almost like auto_ptr<>11:28
@wikingshared_ptr is a template as well that can hold any type of object11:28
@wikingtemplate< class T > class shared_ptr;11:28
@wikingwith that we can throw out SGReferencedData11:29
besser82wiking, so they are interchangeble  ;)11:29
@wikingbesser82: i would say so11:29
besser82wiking: mostly11:29
@wikingbut yeah if we do this11:29
besser82wiking: Yes?11:29
@wikingwe should do as well the shared_ptr thing as well11:29
@wikingas that would be another standardization of the code itself11:30
@wikinginstead of using our own solution11:30
besser82wiking: +1  :D11:30
@wikingi.e. possibly more interopability11:30
@wikingas it's part of c++1111:30
besser82wiking: so when shall we start?11:31
@wikingbesser82: well i think we should finish your cmake developments11:31
@wikingsince that already introduces some kind of a vertical split of the code11:32
besser82wiking, yes, somehow. but just from build-pov11:32
@wikingsince you've created CMakeLists.txt in almost each subdir11:32
@wikingbesser82: yeah true but that would be required anyways for this transition11:32
besser82wiking, which are in 98% just symlinks to some common CMakeLists  :-P11:33
besser82wiking, so my changes would be somewhat superfluous one this point of transition11:34
besser82wiking, since on moving to  we basically need to change virtually everything11:34
besser82wiking, like modular_interfaces and all11:34
@wikingbesser82: well yeah modular interfaces would need a total refactoring11:35
@wikingbesser82: so yeah basically we would need a new feature branch11:36
@wikingand start experimenting there11:36
@wikingfirst try to do the splitting only on the c++ level11:36
@wikingand then try to fix the modular interfaces11:36
besser82wiking: would be a beginning  ;)11:44
besser82wiking: but if we are moving to plugin-style, I'd strongly recommend keeping every plugin inside a seperate git-repo11:44
besser82wiking: and use some common-toolchain to checkout and build11:45
besser82wiking: which would make freezes and stuff quite easier11:45
besser82wiking: have a look at those suse YaST repo-style  ;)11:46
besser82wiking, they are using a git-repo for one thing each11:47
besser82wiking, and have some common {build,dev}tools11:47
besser82wiking, with such a structure we could make things quite easier for user and developers a well11:49
besser82wiking, we could create a tool like shogun-manager or sth.  which checks out the needed repos and builds them11:51
@wikingbesser82: mmm i wouldn't do that11:51
besser82wiking, why? can you explain your pov?11:51
@wikingbesser82: i feel that that's just too much of an overhead11:52
besser82wiking, in the first place  YES11:52
besser82wiking, but when thinking about further progress NO11:52
@wikingbesser82: there's just way tooo many plugins11:53
besser82wiking, not everyone needs / uses the whole set of features11:53
@wikingbesser82: if u think about Features11:53
@wikingor Kernel11:53
@wikingeach of the kernel should be a separate plugin imho11:53
@wikingbut for each of the kernel to make a separate repo11:54
@wikingthat's just waaaay too much11:54
besser82wiking, somehow11:54
@wikingthere are for example 75 different kernel implementations11:54
@wikingand that's just really kernel11:54
besser82wiking, i see11:55
@wikingthink about all the others11:55
@wikingfeatures, machine, classifiers11:55
@wikingetc etc11:55
besser82wiking, so we would endup with ~400 repos or so11:55
@wikingor more like 100011:55
besser82wiking, but with some `smart` managment that wouldn't be so much pain11:56
besser82wiking, we would just need some metadata about what's needed for which purpose  ;)11:57
besser82wiking, and the manager-app could then resolve11:58
besser82wiking, on the other hand we could manage the repos a bit task-based11:59
besser82wiking, like having a repo for all kernel, classifier, etc ....12:00
besser82wiking, a common repo12:00
besser82wiking, so we would end with lemme guess ~20 repos12:01
besser82wiking, have i been too aggressive on marketing my idea?  :(12:11
@sonney2kbesser82, hey good morning13:09
@sonney2kbesser82, any news on cmake?13:09
@sonney2kor have you been thinking all day night about the split thing13:09
besser82sonney2k: actually that plugin-split-action(tm) occupies all my mind  ;)14:02
besser82sonney2k: my currrent thoughts are:  Shall I really spend more time in sth. we need to re-assemble, when running off with that split-stuff?14:03
besser82sonney2k: And it is not that plugin-things, only, which moves me brains14:16
besser82sonney2k: the is sooooo much stuff about shogun, it's future, our goals, the possibilities, possible movements, getting people involved, making it THE one14:18
besser82sonney2k: I'm thinking about stuff centred making SHOGUN the B.I.G. thing14:20
besser82sonney2k: making it easier for people to contrib14:21
besser82sonney2k: creating community14:21
besser82sonney2k: all such14:21
besser82sonney2k: my mind currently shoots ideas like bulletts out of an uzi14:24
besser82sonney2k: creating sth. like pypi or rubygems, but around shogun14:25
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besser82lisitsyn:  ^^^   What do you think?17:07
lisitsynbesser82: yes that's how I see it17:07
besser82lisitsyn: all the same I do?17:07
lisitsynbesser82: actually I see it as something like cross-language platform17:07
lisitsynlet me explain17:08
besser82lisitsyn: sure17:08
lisitsynfrom linguistics position :D17:08
lisitsynshogun is like a commander ;)17:08
lisitsynI see it would be wonderful to have cross-lang inteface for cross-lang stuff17:08
besser82lisitsyn: that can be implemented by a plugin  :D17:09
besser82lisitsyn: python is easy as dell  ;)17:09
lisitsynI mean17:09
lisitsynwe have scikits, weka17:09
lisitsynwe can rule them all17:09
lisitsynin a cross-platform manner17:09
lisitsynerr cross-language17:09
besser82lisitsyn: but ruby or other lang might be some more tricky17:09
lisitsynlets have some ruby standart interface for classifier et17:10
lisitsynwhen once you get some code you do some glueing17:10
lisitsynto support that interface17:10
lisitsynand our runner runs and gets results back17:10
besser82lisitsyn: ok, ok, but python can be intergrated like full interpreter with really few code  ;)17:11
lisitsynsame for matlab etc17:11
besser82lisitsyn: ruby and others are more tough17:11
besser82lisitsyn: from that pov17:11
besser82lisitsyn: are you sure?17:12
lisitsynbesser82: sure about what? :)17:12
besser82lisitsyn: embedding interpreters being easy as baking a pie?17:13
lisitsynwhy to embed them?17:13
lisitsynit is enough to run it as a process and get results back17:13
besser82lisitsyn: like with pipes  ?17:13
besser82lisitsyn: would be nice to get that a bit more elaborated  :-P17:14
lisitsynbesser82: okay I download some code by famous-researcher-of-machine-learning17:14
besser82lisitsyn: which code from sonney2k ?!?17:14
lisitsynit has function do_stuff(...)17:15
besser82lisitsyn: go on17:15
lisitsynwe set up COMMON interface for matlab classifiers we support17:15
lisitsynlets say it is train(X,Y)17:15
lisitsynyou write17:15
lisitsyn    do_stuff(....)17:15
lisitsynwith proper dispatching of parameters17:15
lisitsynI mean you extract all the data you need whatever original algorithm requires17:16
besser82lisitsyn: I see17:24
besser82lisitsyn: My thought on this particular topic was more like having the possibility to be able to develop plugins in other lang, which directly interface with shogun17:26
lisitsynbesser82: yeah if possible17:26
lisitsynbut what about matlab shit?17:26
besser82lisitsyn, sure for python easy as spending 500$17:26
besser82lisitsyn, :-P17:26
besser82lisitsyn, just a bit of code and some `Cython`-magic and here we go17:27
besser82lisitsyn, so for python we just need a bit of native python-code and some Cython cppdefs ---> convert to *.cpp ---> compile a plugin ---> go17:29
besser82lisitsyn, that wrapper-plugin is then able to "embed" the whole python-interpreter and load-in shogun-plugins written in pure-python17:30
besser82lisitsyn, ruby, java, ...  would be some more work I guess17:31
besser82lisitsyn, matlab?  I dunno, I don't own, I don't use17:31
besser82lisitsyn, but should be perfectly the same as octave17:31
lisitsynyes would be better17:32
besser82lisitsyn, better what?17:32
lisitsynto compile it as plugins17:32
besser82lisitsyn, lang-embed-plugins you mean?17:33
lisitsynthan piping them17:33
* besser82 throws an instance of confused-exception (What?)17:33
lisitsynbesser82: making them plugins (your suggestion) would be better than piping (my suggestion)17:34
besser82lisitsyn, now i got it  :D17:34
besser82lisitsyn, yes piping is somewhat fragile, I'm afraid17:34
besser82lisitsyn, and i dunno whether there is protobuf support for matlab  :-P17:35
besser82lisitsyn, which would be another way17:35
besser82lisitsyn, but having plugins "embedding" the interp  would be the best i guess17:35
besser82lisitsyn, how do like that idea of having sth. like pypi or gems for shogun?17:54
lisitsynbesser82: yeah that sounds good17:54
lisitsynbesser82: though I'd make it as minimal as possible17:55
besser82lisitsyn, which minimal?17:55
lisitsynbesser82: just some basic thing - not like whole new packaging system17:55
besser82lisitsyn, no nothing just stealing metadata stuff && needs from gems or sth  ;)17:56
besser82lisitsyn, like having a wrapper which is able to resolve deps between plugins, fetches the needed one (e.g. git checkout), builds && registers them18:49
besser82lisitsyn, with the shogun-interface-lib18:49
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lisitsynbesser82: actually such repo is what I want to develop :D19:48
besser82lisitsyn: Nice!  then go ahead with that  :D19:49
lisitsynI think I'd like to learn a bit how to design this type of software19:49
besser82lisitsyn, pkg-manager?19:49
lisitsynyeah somewhat like that19:49
besser82lisitsyn, if you need some help or design ideas you can ask Ale? Kozumpl?k <>19:52
lisitsynha you have contacts right19:52
besser82lisitsyn, yes  :D19:52
besser82lisitsyn, another one might be Klaus K?mpf <>19:53
lisitsynbesser82: I am trying to learn piano, any contacts? :D19:53
besser82lisitsyn, mmmhhhhhh....19:54
lisitsynbesser82: it is Heiko! ;)19:54
besser82lisitsyn, some local mi?usic-student, perhaps  :-P19:54
lisitsynhe is kind of musician19:54
besser82lisitsyn, yes, but not piano, i'm afraid19:54
lisitsynbesser82: every musician can play piano at least a bit ;)19:55
lisitsynbesser82: Heiko plays guitar mainly afaik19:55
besser82lisitsyn, yes,  and yes a bit for sure.  But enough to teach?19:55
lisitsynhaha no idea19:55
besser82lisitsyn, and mind the distance  :-P19:55
lisitsynbesser82: I am experimenting of self-taught learning19:55
besser82lisitsyn, me too  ;)19:56
besser82lisitsyn, all me skillz are mostly from self-studies19:56
lisitsynbesser82: yeah so why not to try to learn music this way too19:56
besser82lisitsyn, my greatest problem with that is: I'm left-handed19:57
lisitsynbesser82: me too19:57
lisitsynbesser82: what is the problem?19:57
besser82lisitsyn, most instruments are made for right-handed19:58
lisitsynbesser82: well.. kind of19:58
lisitsynbesser82: but what is the instrument which is that inconvenient for left-handed guys?19:59
besser82lisitsyn, guitar e.g.19:59
besser82lisitsyn, basically all string instr19:59
lisitsynI feel it makes no difference when you don't know how to play ;)19:59
besser82lisitsyn, kk  but if you try to make it sound nice?!?20:00
lisitsynI mean it is harder to write with right hand because you have been doing it left hand all the way20:00
lisitsynbut when you learn instrument it should be ok ;)20:00
lisitsynbesser82: there is a long way to make it sound nice anyway haha20:00
besser82lisitsyn, actually it hasn't to do much with the way you learned....20:01
lisitsynbesser82: I love upright bass, want to get it once and start learning20:01
lisitsynit is symmetric so no problem with left-handness20:02
lisitsynbesser82: what do you mean?20:02
besser82lisitsyn, it's the way the "wiring" in ya brain has grown  ;)20:02
lisitsynbesser82: I am not sure, I believe you can change that wiring enough20:03
besser82lisitsyn, raise a lefthanded child writing with the right hand and it will surely get depressions and other psychologic problem20:03
besser82lisitsyn, known fact20:04
lisitsynoh yeah people used to do that before20:04
besser82lisitsyn, some 70 y back20:04
lisitsynbesser82: but that's true for any force applied to child20:04
besser82lisitsyn, not with force  ;)20:05
besser82lisitsyn, just gentle teaching is enough20:05
besser82lisitsyn, one simply cannot reorder the two halves of the brain20:06
lisitsynbesser82: I am not sure ambidexterity is not possible to train20:06
besser82lisitsyn, nope it's born that way20:07
besser82lisitsyn, there are actually a lot of things which is decided @~3rd month of pregnancy20:07
besser82lisitsyn, sexual orientation, left / right handed, .....20:08
lisitsynbesser82: oh no sexual orientation could be decided much later20:08
besser82lisitsyn, possibly yes, but some scientist found out the basics are made then20:09
besser82lisitsyn, being gay or a dyke isn't just a decision20:10
lisitsynbesser82: haha yes most of the times yes it is not a decision20:10
lisitsynbut I would believe it is quite related to environment and stresses you have in childhood20:10
besser82lisitsyn, that can be possibly some "weak" circumstances, but I know a lot of gays which didn't have any suspicious things in their childhood20:12
lisitsynI mean just like that anecdotical thing - if girl had difficult relationships with her father you can expect some kind of sexual behaviour20:12
besser82lisitsyn, they are just that way20:12
lisitsynbesser82: I don't speak about great suspicious things - some small things could change the game20:13
besser82lisitsyn, which ones?!?20:13
lisitsynbesser82: if I knew I said but that's how I see it ;)20:13
lisitsynbrain and all these mental things are kinda complex you know ;)20:14
besser82lisitsyn, yes20:14
besser82lisitsyn, god, why did you not make brain && mental stuff like boolean????20:14
lisitsynI am quite biased to the thought that any human is like tabula rasa once born20:15
besser82lisitsyn, nope20:15
lisitsynwell not physically20:15
lisitsynand not for the things that are related to genes20:16
besser82lisitsyn, even not for psychologic stuff20:16
lisitsynno I can't accept that ;)20:16
besser82lisitsyn, baby catches more in mama's belly than we believe20:16
lisitsynwell we all know baby can't speak and understand20:18
lisitsynspeak and understand words not emotions20:18
besser82lisitsyn, and emotions can be enough20:18
lisitsynso I am not sure it matter what is spoken around20:18
besser82lisitsyn, not the word, but tone  ;)20:19
lisitsynyes I can agree human like any other animal can catch the emotion beneath20:19
besser82lisitsyn, jupp20:19
lisitsynbesser82: what's the jupp about? ;)20:20
besser82lisitsyn, s=eval(jupp) ; print $s ---> Yes20:20
besser82just the german way to ack / yes  ;)20:21
lisitsynbesser82: one more thing you could not agree with me is that thing about humans being animals ;)20:21
lisitsynI suspect you won't accept that20:21
besser82lisitsyn, as long as we did not find the missing link...20:22
besser82lisitsyn, I can whether denie nor agree20:22
besser82lisitsyn, but everything pretty leads to the asumption the common evolution theory is correct  ;)20:23
besser82lisitsyn, so yes, in fact we are animals20:23
besser82lisitsyn, that's one thing i totally agree with20:23
besser82lisitsyn, we have enough basic-instincts in us to prove that20:24
besser82lisitsyn, you know why one cannot stop eating crisps once started?20:24
lisitsynbesser82: haha20:29
besser82lisitsyn, it has to do with our basic-instrincts20:34
lisitsynbe back soon20:35
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lisitsynbesser82: having troubles with my notebook ac adapter haha20:38
besser82lisitsyn, the sound of biting down on some crisps triggers sth in the Medulla oblongata20:38
besser82lisitsyn, hehe20:38
lisitsynbasically it is mechanically broken20:38
besser82lisitsyn, get a new one  ;)20:39
lisitsynbesser82: yeah that's what I am thinking of20:39
lisitsynnew notebook or new ac adapter :D20:39
besser82lisitsyn, wanna buy a real mobile workstation?20:39
lisitsynbesser82: oh no I am fan of small devices :D20:39
besser82lisitsyn, kk20:40
lisitsynyou can suggest me i19 48-core CPU20:40
besser82lisitsyn, :-P20:40
lisitsynmy current one20:40
lisitsynpiece of crap20:40
besser82lisitsyn, no but i could offer i7-2680QM 4-core / HT20:41
besser82lisitsyn, those are the shitty ones from samsung20:41
besser82lisitsyn, my old "Q45" is still alive  ;)20:41
lisitsynbesser82: it is made mostly of plastic and my way of using it makes it broken day by day20:41
lisitsynand it has already dead battery20:42
lisitsyn1.5yr old20:42
besser82lisitsyn, the q45 was made of magnesium  ;)20:42
besser82lisitsyn, 7 yo20:42
lisitsynbesser82: that's why I like macbook air20:42
besser82lisitsyn, don't buy things with bitten fruit on it  ;)20:43
besser82  <-- Q4520:43
lisitsynbesser82: you've got to convince sonney2k macs are bad too ;)20:43
besser82lisitsyn, on it20:44
besser82sonney2k, ^^^  Stuff with bitten fruit on it is bad, you know  ;)20:44
besser82lisitsyn, ^^^  :-P20:45
besser82lisitsyn, those are good  ;)  --->
lisitsynbesser82: yeah20:48
besser82lisitsyn, but quite expensive for so less power20:50
lisitsynbesser82: I do not need any power ;)20:50
besser82lisitsyn, I can sell you my q45 for ~200EUR20:50
lisitsynit would be enough to have ssd and not that bad cpu to handle20:50
lisitsynwhy would I buy it20:51
besser82lisitsyn, has ssd and Core2Duo 2,5 GHz20:51
besser82lisitsyn, 4GB RAM20:51
besser82lisitsyn, 12"20:51
besser82lisitsyn, DVD-RW20:51
lisitsynbesser82: 8 gb, ssd and 1.7 i5 here20:51
lisitsynsounds like downgrade20:51
besser82lisitsyn, but it doesn't break  ;)20:51
besser82lisitsyn, like the one you currently have20:52
lisitsynbesser82: well it had a few flights20:52
besser82lisitsyn, mine too20:52
besser82lisitsyn, nothing broken20:52
lisitsynlike hard landing to floor :D20:52
besser82lisitsyn, mine too20:52
besser82lisitsyn, nothing broken20:52
lisitsynheh yeah metal shouldn't suffer that much20:53
besser82lisitsyn, only screen needed replacement once20:53
lisitsynyeah I replaced samsung screen once too20:53
lisitsynnot on this machine though20:53
lisitsynrussian winter (tm)20:54
lisitsynI got back to home and turn it on20:54
lisitsynI guess it was quite cold yet and a few seconds after it cracked :D20:54
besser82lisitsyn, hehe20:54
besser82lisitsyn, was an lcd, right?20:55
besser82lisitsyn, those are known to crack when getting too cold and powered20:55
besser82lisitsyn, the other offer i can make is i7-2680QM 32GB-RAM, SSD, 2 HDD, BlueRay-burner, nvidia 580GTX20:56
besser82lisitsyn, 1,4 Gbit/s WLAN20:56
lisitsynhaha whaat a monstah20:56
besser82lisitsyn, 17"  ~6kgs20:56
besser82lisitsyn, real workstation  ;)20:56
lisitsynwell you don't have to go to gym20:56
lisitsynif you have such a thing20:57
besser82lisitsyn, no, but how do know i don't care about my overweight?!?20:57
lisitsynbesser82: me too though I prefer to not carry such things ;)20:57
besser82lisitsyn, let's say so:  That Workstation suits me "size"20:58
lisitsynhaha I get what you mean20:58
besser82lisitsyn, 140 kgs pure erotic  :-P20:58
lisitsynhaha yeah then I totally get what I mean20:59
lisitsyna bit less than 100 here :D20:59
besser82lisitsyn, you must "train" harder then to get closer to the 140  :-P20:59
lisitsynbesser82: with my kind of genetic properties it should be easy enough :D21:00
lisitsynbesser82: I guess you haven't trained hard to achieve that too ;)21:01
besser82lisitsyn, not really21:01
lisitsynit is a gift haha21:01
lisitsynof nature21:01
besser82lisitsyn, yes  :D21:01
besser82lisitsyn, but some girls don't understand that :(21:02
lisitsynhehe yeah21:02
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shogun-notifier-shogun: Saurabh7 :develop * db77e9f / / (3 files):
shogun-notifier-shogun: add LOOxval21:02
shogun-notifier-shogun: Saurabh7 :develop * 1010cba / src/shogun/evaluation/ (2 files):
shogun-notifier-shogun: add stdxval inheritance to loo21:02
shogun-notifier-shogun: Saurabh7 :develop * abd777f / examples/undocumented/libshogun/splitting_LOO_crossvalidation.cpp:
shogun-notifier-shogun: update looxval example21:02
shogun-notifier-shogun: Heiko Strathmann :develop * 79a2b45 / / (3 files):
shogun-notifier-shogun: Merge pull request #1799 from Saurabh7/loocrossval21:02
shogun-notifier-shogun: add LOOxval21:02
besser82lisitsyn, ^^^  merge alert!!!!21:03
lisitsynbesser82: alarm21:03
besser82lisitsyn, AUSWEIS BITTE!21:03
lisitsynbesser82: I remember there was a game with germans yell21:03
lisitsynI think it is commandos21:04
besser82lisitsyn, yes some 15 years back or so  ;)21:04
lisitsyncool game21:04
lisitsynI should not take a look at it to not ruin my memories21:04
besser82lisitsyn, yes21:04
besser82lisitsyn, you know Wolfenstein 3D?21:05
lisitsynyeah sure21:05
besser82lisitsyn, the Germans there are yelling stuff too21:05
besser82lisitsyn, MEIN LEBEN!21:05
lisitsynand in 'return to castle wolfenstein' too ;)21:05
besser82lisitsyn, :D21:05
besser82lisitsyn, both games are forbidden in Germany21:06
besser82lisitsyn, but everbody has a copy  :-P21:06
besser82lisitsyn, because of some graphical 3rd Reich symbols21:06
besser82lisitsyn, like those svatiskas and pictures of Hitler21:06
lisitsynbut they look cool ;)21:06
lisitsynit has its own aesthetics21:07
besser82lisitsyn, in Indiana Jones the last Crusade there was a special version for germany too21:07
besser82lisitsyn, somehow yes, but those symbols are forbidden in germany21:08
lisitsynI mean it wasn't a cool thing but I don't think restricting every mention of anything21:08
lisitsynis a good thing to do21:08
besser82lisitsyn, showing stuff is ~5y prison21:08
lisitsynlike these holocaust denial laws - people should be free to be idiots and believe to anything they want21:09
besser82lisitsyn, not in germany21:09
lisitsynbesser82: why?21:09
lisitsynbesser82: I know it is that but I mean it would be better to not restrict anything ;)21:09
besser82lisitsyn, those laws were made by the allied21:10
besser82lisitsyn, and are still valid21:10
besser82lisitsyn, like some other crappy law too21:10
lisitsynbesser82: nazi symbols are forbidden here too by the way21:11
besser82lisitsyn, laws surving stalin, I guess?21:11
lisitsynbesser82: hmm I don't know when was it introduced21:11
lisitsynbesser82: actually stalin's laws were beautiful piece of humanity21:12
lisitsynbut not the real life :D21:12
besser82lisitsyn, hehe21:12
besser82lisitsyn, some minor contradiction21:12
besser82lisitsyn, like in all totalitary systems ;)21:13
lisitsynbesser82: stalin is a hero for like a half of people here ;)21:13
besser82lisitsyn, shouldn't that be lenin?21:13
lisitsynbesser82: no lenin is like forgotten21:13
besser82lisitsyn, or Gorbatschow21:13
besser82lisitsyn, like for people in Ex-GDR21:14
lisitsyngorbi is hated21:14
lisitsynbesser82: most of the people just hate gorbachev21:14
besser82lisitsyn, what did he do?21:14
lisitsynin their minds he destroyed the great country21:15
lisitsynbesser82: in fact it was on the way to be destroyed anyway21:15
besser82lisitsyn, yes21:15
besser82lisitsyn, CCCP was on it's last breathes those days21:15
lisitsynbesser82: same thing for yeltsin21:16
lisitsynwhich is totally hated too21:16
besser82lisitsyn, Boris I can understand  ;)21:16
lisitsynwell at least he was a funny guy21:16
besser82lisitsyn, funny yes, but ...21:16
lisitsynmost of the time being drunk21:16
besser82lisitsyn, There is some discount vodka named after him in Germany  ;)21:17
besser82lisitsyn, Jeltzin - pure russian vodka  :D21:17
lisitsynbesser82: he wasn't the most clever guy but he let quite okish people to rule21:17
lisitsynso 90s were not that terrible21:17
besser82lisitsyn, and then came Putin  :-P21:18
lisitsynbesser82: yes and he made a few good things and then become a monster21:18
besser82lisitsyn, yes21:18
lisitsynbasically starting from 2004-2006 he has been doing crazy things21:18
besser82lisitsyn, then went to make some serious $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$  and left over to Medwedwew21:19
lisitsynbesser82: extra oil prices made people quite rich in 2001-200421:19
lisitsynmost of the people bought cars these days etc21:19
lisitsynit was really good years economics-wise21:19
besser82lisitsyn, but now most people are poor again  :(21:19
lisitsynbesser82: there are crazy amounts of money still21:20
lisitsynactually just go get it21:20
besser82lisitsyn, lets-a-go !!!!!21:20
besser82lisitsyn, tell me where to grab  :-P21:20
lisitsynbesser82: no really, goverment still has a lot of money21:20
besser82lisitsyn, and some very few others21:21
lisitsynbesser82: we do a project for russian railways21:21
besser82lisitsyn, which one?21:21
lisitsynwell some scheduling21:21
lisitsynand we get quite $$$21:21
lisitsynfor nothing serious21:21
besser82lisitsyn, then go out and grab some more  ;)21:22
lisitsynthey have millions of $ flying around21:22
lisitsynbesser82: they just care to grab some % of that and redirect the work21:22
lisitsynand still in the end (2-3 step of redirection)21:22
lisitsynit is quite good money21:22
lisitsynif I wasn't on salary I'd get rich with such things :D21:23
besser82lisitsyn, then put your foot in the door and save me a place in that chain  ;)21:23
besser82lisitsyn, and then we redirect the work to some indians21:23
lisitsynbesser82: that's quite easy - you just talk to right people21:24
besser82lisitsyn, like 75% us / 25% them  :D21:24
lisitsynbesser82: I can say they are mostly located in moscow :D21:24
besser82lisitsyn, then start talking  ;)21:24
lisitsynno other places to make deals in russia21:24
besser82lisitsyn, don't you live in Moscow21:24
lisitsynbesser82: no, samara21:24
besser82lisitsyn, is it a great distance?21:25
lisitsynbesser82: 1K km21:25
lisitsyn1.15 by plane ;)21:25
besser82lisitsyn, ok21:25
besser82lisitsyn, so need to go21:25
besser82lisitsyn, so I need to go there  ;)21:25
lisitsynbesser82: really all the money is in moscwo21:26
lisitsynquite easy thing :D21:26
besser82lisitsyn, but i don't speak tha ???????  :(21:26
lisitsynI suspect you have less centric distribution of money flow21:26
besser82lisitsyn, actually yes21:26
besser82lisitsyn, in Germany it is more shattered21:27
lisitsynas far as I know munich is kind of more rich city than berlin21:27
besser82lisitsyn, yes21:27
besser82lisitsyn, and more expensive by far21:27
lisitsynthat's impossible for russia - everything is in moscow21:27
besser82lisitsyn, 2-room, ghetto-style flat starts @ 1K5EUR without heating21:28
lisitsynthat's crazy21:28
besser82lisitsyn, there are more people than flats  ;)21:28
lisitsynbesser82: however quite similar to moscow prices21:28
besser82lisitsyn, let's go moscow and grab some $$$, then21:29
lisitsynbesser82: I pay ~625$ here21:29
besser82lisitsyn, for what?21:29
lisitsyn1 room, ~70 m221:29
besser82lisitsyn, that's normal price like in Germany21:29
lisitsynbesser82: quite above average here21:30
lisitsynbesser82: though I decided to take it due to larger volume and 18th floor ;)21:30
besser82lisitsyn, 18th floor !?!?21:31
lisitsynbesser82: yeah21:31
besser82lisitsyn, who wants to live there?21:31
lisitsynbesser82: I ;)21:31
lisitsynbesser82: why not?21:31
besser82lisitsyn, It's da much too high21:31
lisitsynthat's what I see from da window when it is summer21:32
besser82lisitsyn, looks like somewhere in an industrial complex....21:33
lisitsynbesser82: no typical russian city21:34
lisitsynbesser82: the closest building is university :D21:34
besser82lisitsyn, other countries, other circumstances  ;)21:34
lisitsynbesser82: I'd say it is kind of new centre of the city actually21:35
besser82lisitsyn, you can imagine me house like some in a typical uptown-suburb21:35
lisitsynbesser82: I like that kind of houses21:35
besser82lisitsyn, wanna come to germany?21:36
besser82lisitsyn, have some flat in spare  ;)21:36
lisitsynbesser82: not decided where I want to come :)21:36
lisitsynbesser82: I am 'almost married' ;)21:36
besser82lisitsyn,  good for getting visa  :-P21:37
besser82lisitsyn,  esp. USA21:37
besser82lisitsyn,  :D21:37
lisitsynthey didn't give it to me though21:37
besser82lisitsyn,  then go get married and you'll get  ;)21:37
lisitsynyes but a bit later :D21:37
besser82lisitsyn,  for germany you just need grandpa with german shepheard  :-P21:38
lisitsynbesser82: I am neither jew nor related to germany in any means ;)21:39
lisitsynso no options but typisch process :)21:39
besser82lisitsyn,  yes, like I said21:40
besser82lisitsyn,  you need to tell you granpa had a german shepheard  ;)21:40
besser82lisitsyn,  BITTE SEHR, IHRE PAPIERE  :D21:40
lisitsynbesser82: I am not sure I understand what is shepheard ;)21:42
besser82lisitsyn, it's a dog  ;)21:49
lisitsynbesser82: ah then I get it right21:49
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travis-ci[travis-ci] it's Heiko Strathmann's turn to pay the next round of drinks for the massacre he caused in shogun-toolbox/shogun:
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besser82lisitsyn, ^^^  Heiko hat's kaputt gemacht  ;)21:51
besser82lisitsyn, let's get back to some more serious stuff, like "How we can make SHOGUN rule the world"  ;)21:53
lisitsynbesser82: shogun kaputt gemacht21:53
besser82lisitsyn, yes  ;)21:53
besser82lisitsyn, how do we want to start making shogun better?21:55
besser82lisitsyn, liking doing plugins and all?21:55
lisitsynbesser82: 1) I get some rest 2) I start doing some shit21:55
lisitsynbesser82: we should start experimenting with plugins21:55
lisitsyncause I have barely any idea how to develop that so far21:55
besser82lisitsyn, did you read the link in my email?21:55
lisitsynnot yet21:56
lisitsyngood you remind21:56
besser82lisitsyn, there is some idea about how to get some very basic plugin"server"21:56
besser82lisitsyn, like loading and registering symbols21:56
besser82lisitsyn, some ground to start from21:57
besser82lisitsyn, wiking had some idea about using shared_ptr for CSGObjects21:57
besser82lisitsyn, and derived21:57
@sonney2kbesser82, lisitsyn are you guys enjoying the trip?21:58
besser82sonney2k, which trip?21:58
lisitsynsonney2k: what trip?21:58
@sonney2kseems like it is not cold enough to kill the fancy mushrooms21:58
lisitsynbesser82: is he trying to offence us? :D21:59
besser82lisitsyn, looks like21:59
@sonney2kyou have all the dictator power of stalin and hitler combined21:59
@sonney2kI am more than afraid!21:59
lisitsynI don't get this language :D21:59
lisitsynI feel unsafe22:00
besser82sonney2k, we don't want to harm anybody  ;)22:00
@sonney2klisitsyn, what is wrong with java modular javac: file not found: /home/travis/build/shogun-toolbox/shogun/build/src/interfaces/java_modular/*.java ?!22:00
lisitsynbesser82: I see auto_ptr here22:00
@sonney2klisitsyn, did someone remove java stuff?22:00
lisitsynauto_ptr is a NO-GO22:00
lisitsynsonney2k: it wasn't me22:01
besser82lisitsyn, that is just an example22:01
besser82lisitsyn, we need to mod that ;)22:02
lisitsynbesser82: okay well I get it22:02
lisitsynbesser82: this technique is known for me22:02
besser82lisitsyn, auto_ptr is one posibility amoung much and some few better ones ;)22:02
lisitsynshared_ptr for the win!22:02
besser82lisitsyn, +1  ;)22:03
lisitsynbesser82: auto_ptr is dangerous with its strange copy behaviour22:03
lisitsynbesser82: the main problem I see is22:04
besser82lisitsyn, which22:04
lisitsynhow to resolve some plugin in python22:04
lisitsyni.e. I wrote a plugin22:04
lisitsynhow can I resolve it w/o the need to recompile shogun with its support22:04
lisitsynthis won't work22:04
besser82lisitsyn, like building a c++-base pluging which provides the interpreter22:04
lisitsynI mean basic shogun doesn't export plugin names22:05
besser82lisitsyn, we don't need22:05
lisitsynwell but you need to get that shogun.myclassifier22:05
lisitsynhow do you do that?22:05
besser82lisitsyn, we need some cheap metadata around with the plugins22:05
lisitsynyes it is clear22:06
lisitsynbut still22:06
besser82lisitsyn, datatypes and object shall get unified22:06
lisitsynfor our user22:06
lisitsynhow does he call new plugin?22:06
lisitsynor what?22:06
besser82lisitsyn, sth. like that22:06
besser82lisitsyn, and that plugin should have some init() to provide ptr to all stuff inside22:07
lisitsynwell factory22:07
lisitsynit should provide a factory22:07
besser82lisitsyn, the plugin?22:09
lisitsynyeah so you can create new classifier22:09
besser82lisitsyn, classifier like?22:10
lisitsynbesser82: well you loaded a module22:10
besser82lisitsyn, yes22:10
lisitsynand then use its factory to create new instance22:10
lisitsynof classifier it supports22:10
lisitsynor whatever it does22:11
besser82lisitsyn, that should be handled by some kind of plugin server....22:11
lisitsynyou should be able to create multiple instances of that22:11
besser82lisitsyn, yes22:11
lisitsynso it should be explicit22:11
besser82lisitsyn, but handled through plugin-server22:12
lisitsyn'I need liblinear SVM instance'22:12
lisitsynbesser82: the worst thing here is that we need to use a lot of strings22:12
lisitsynto name modules, to resolve them during runtime22:12
besser82lisitsyn, pluginserver.request('instance of type')22:13
besser82lisitsyn, which then returns ptr to that new instace22:13
lisitsynI think it is shogun.create('LibLinearSVM') or whatever22:13
lisitsynor even22:13
lisitsyncause you need it explicit in python22:14
besser82lisitsyn, how ever we name the child ;)22:14
lisitsynotherwise people won't able to cast it back to classifier22:14
besser82lisitsyn, unfied object /data- types ???22:14
lisitsynbesser82: how unified?22:15
lisitsynis it up to sgobject or whatever it is called?22:15
besser82lisitsyn, like having only one type of each thing22:15
besser82lisitsyn, Things deriving from CSGObj should be unified eg22:15
lisitsynehmmm so kernel and classifier have the same set of methods?22:16
besser82lisitsyn, posibly22:16
besser82lisitsyn, lemme check code22:16
lisitsynbesser82: it could be a problem22:16
besser82lisitsyn, why?22:16
lisitsynwell what is apply for kernel?22:16
lisitsynor what is train for distance22:17
besser82lisitsyn, empty stub, that does nothing?22:18
lisitsynbesser82: sounds bad22:18
lisitsynI mean too many methods that do nothing but exist there for a reason22:18
besser82lisitsyn, how to resolve otherwise?22:19
besser82sonney2k, are you still around?!?22:19
lisitsynbesser82: create_classifier, create_processor etc22:19
besser82lisitsyn, andd how to annouce / declare the availability?22:20
lisitsynla excepcione !22:20
lisitsynthrow new FuckYouException22:21
shogun-buildbotbuild #150 of clang34 - undefined behaviour analysis is complete: Failure [failed test]  Build details are at  blamelist: Saurabh7 <>22:22
* besser82 throws an instace of FuckYouException: (What?) MyAss!!!22:22
besser82lisitsyn, ?????22:22
lisitsynbesser82: okay availability of what?22:23
@sonney2kbesser82, yes22:23
besser82sonney2k, what's wrong with java?22:23
@sonney2kbesser82, travis is unhappy22:23
@sonney2kI am waiting for the buildbot to see if this is just a heisenbug22:24
besser82lisitsyn, about which methods / functions are inside the new avail class22:24
@sonney2kbesser82, actually all good on the buildbot22:24
besser82sonney2k, looks like a glitch to me22:25
besser82lisitsyn, without needing predecl or headers?22:25
lisitsynbesser82: if we speak about plugins we have no headers22:25
@sonney2klisitsyn, I only see the problem with registering sth new to non-interpreted interfaces (java, csharp, ...)22:26
lisitsynsonney2k: yes but that's terribly major proble22:26
@sonney2klisitsyn, why? everything has to be available *at compile time*22:27
@sonney2kthat is normal with such $langs22:27
lisitsynsonney2k: how can plugin be available at compile time?22:27
besser82lisitsyn, they don't need but some decl needs to be22:28
lisitsynthen we have to put every and each plugin to shogun itself22:28
lisitsynI mean at least their exported names22:28
besser82lisitsyn, or we just use unified stuff ;)22:28
lisitsynunified interface is the way22:29
lisitsynbut it is not unified like one possible class22:29
lisitsynrather a few possible classes22:29
besser82lisitsyn, as i said22:29
besser82lisitsyn, a handfull of generic stuff and all is fine ;)22:29
besser82sonney2k, did you read those full backlog?22:31
besser82sonney2k, like the beginning of my chat with lisitsyn ?22:31
besser82sonney2k, what's your oppionion about that?!?22:31
@sonney2kbesser82, yeah but no idea what you have in your minds22:32
besser82sonney2k, mein kopf ist so klar, wie der korn darin  :-P22:32
besser82sonney2k, features, features, features22:33
lisitsynhaha we have to write specification22:33
lisitsynwe all know what do we want to get22:33
besser82sonney2k, like pluginize everything and make stuff possible like with e.g. rubygems22:34
besser82sonney2k, shogun-samurai install fancy-extension-for-shogun  ;)22:34
besser82lisitsyn, spec like?22:34
lisitsynbesser82: describe anything22:34
lisitsynbefore coding22:35
besser82lisitsyn, ahh kk  like ISO  :D22:35
@sonney2kbesser82, bakufu is the name22:35
besser82sonney2k, that was the name i wanted to reserve for the "core" stuff  ;)22:35
lisitsynbesser82: yes first ISO certified machine learning toolbox :D22:35
lisitsyncan we speak docs22:36
lisitsynbesser82: sonney2k: are you ok with describing it in gdoc?22:36
besser82sonney2k, like having shogun the interface, bakufu the "core" plugins maintained by us and samurai for community / gem stuff  ;)22:36
@sonney2klisitsyn, or github wiki!22:37
besser82sonney2k, +1  ;)22:37
shogun-buildbotbuild #148 of clang34 - thread analysis is complete: Failure [failed test]  Build details are at  blamelist: Heiko Strathmann <>, Saurabh7 <>22:38
lisitsynsonney2k: besser82: it is less realtime but ok22:39
lisitsynhow does it handle multiple changes?22:40
lisitsynare they overwritten?22:40
@sonney2klisitsyn, realtime is etherpad22:42
lisitsynsonney2k: google docs is as well?22:43
lisitsynI trust google docs more :D22:44
lisitsynespecially due22:44
lisitsynto ' Pad contents are destroyed periodically'22:44
besser82lisitsyn, sonney2k which one now? gh-wiki, gdocs or ethercrap?22:49
lisitsynno idea :)22:50
@sonney2kI am for gh-wiki22:52
@sonney2kit is public -> better22:52
besser82lisitsyn, sonney2k me is fine with either22:57
shogun-buildbotbuild #165 of clang34 - static analysis is complete: Failure [failed analyse]  Build details are at  blamelist: Heiko Strathmann <>, Saurabh7 <>23:21
shogun-buildbotbuild #151 of clang34 - undefined behaviour analysis is complete: Failure [failed test]  Build details are at  blamelist: Heiko Strathmann <>23:32
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--- Log closed Sun Dec 29 00:00:27 2013