Open in new window / Try shogun cloud
--- Log opened Fri Apr 06 00:00:19 2012
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shogun-buildbotbuild #439 of ruby_modular is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at
shogun-buildbotbuild #445 of python_modular is complete: Failure [failed test_1]  Build details are at  blamelist:, gsomix@gmail.com01:35
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gsomixoops, there is wrong 'if' statement. =__=05:28
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n4nd0pluskid: hey! how is it going?07:41
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pluskidn4nd0: I'm officially graduated now07:48
pluskidfinished all the busy stuff07:48
n4nd0pluskid: oh that's really cool, congrats :)07:48
n4nd0is your major in computer science or already sth more particular?07:49
pluskidNow I started to read some related papers07:49
pluskidCS :)07:49
pluskidhow about you?07:49
n4nd0I am fine07:50
n4nd0having my personal battle with cover trees for KNN :P07:51
pluskidwhat is a cover tree?07:51
n4nd0is a tree structure that can be used for fast nearest neighbors07:52
n4nd0not sure if they're the same07:52
pluskidOK, I see07:53
n4nd0I don't think so07:53
n4nd0it seems that KDTrees are binary trees right?07:53
pluskidyes, IIRC07:53
n4nd0cover trees are not07:53
n4nd0the results people have got with them for KNN are nice07:54
pluskidThen how it works? Do a hierarchical clustering and use that clustering tree to search?07:54
n4nd0check it out if interested07:54
pluskidAh, is a famous site :D07:54
n4nd0if you mean with hierarchical that the nodes in the tree are stored depending on their distances between each other, yes07:55
pluskidSo you are implementing this in shogun?07:57
n4nd0the cover tree is already there07:57
n4nd0is ported from an open source implementation07:58
n4nd0I am integrating it with KNN07:58
pluskidOK, I see, you are using this to speed up KNN07:58
n4nd0I have it integrated already, just polishing details07:58
n4nd0but it would be nice to have examples for speedup like the ones in the paper07:58
pluskidYes, some benchmark test on some standard dataset07:59
pluskidCover tree looks cool. the limitation of KDTree is that it becomes slow when the dimension is high08:00
n4nd0I see, are they use for speedup as well?08:01
pluskidFor speed up NN Search08:01
pluskidor do approximate NN search08:01
pluskid(not sure whether cover tree can do approximate NN search)08:02
n4nd0I have seen cool figures related to kd trees, but didn't really know about them
pluskidbasically, it split the searching for neighbors along each dimension08:03
pluskidThe 2D example is good for understanding08:04
pluskidBut when the data dimension grows, the depth of the tree grows, and searching becomes slow08:04
n4nd0oh wait, yeah I did hear about this kd-trees in a course :P08:05
pluskidI think kd tree is widely used in practice08:06
pluskidanother related interesting (more theory or algorithm oriented) work is random projection tree08:06
pluskidby Sanjoy Dusgupta:
pluskidIIRC, it has the advantage over KDTree that08:07
pluskidwhen the *intrinsic dimension* of the data is low, its performance do not degenerate even when the extrinsic data dimension is very high (like KDTree)08:08
n4nd0aham, interesting08:08
pluskidbut I do not know whether it is already used in some real-world projects already08:08
pluskidn4nd0: have you worked on structured learning before?08:11
n4nd0pluskid: no, just the stuff I have been reading when I got to know the project in shogun08:11
pluskidme too08:11
n4nd0it looks really nice though08:11
pluskidyes, got applied in lots of practical problems08:12
n4nd0you are mainly interested in computer vision, aren't you?08:12
pluskidactually, I heard someone else in my lab is using structured SVM to do human detection08:12
pluskidactually, I'm mainly in machine learning :D08:13
pluskidhow about you, what's your interest?08:13
pluskidthat's cool!08:13
n4nd0my master is on that08:13
pluskidwhat kind of robots do you work with?08:14
n4nd0we don't get that much in contact with real robots to tell the truth :S08:14
n4nd0but my focus is on autonomous systems08:15
pluskidso, the software part?08:15
n4nd0I am interested in localization, mapping, navigation08:15
n4nd0yeah sure08:15
n4nd0I am a CS guy :)08:15
pluskidAha! :D08:15
pluskidI have some very limited knowledge of reinforcement learning08:16
pluskiddo you use RL in your work?08:16
n4nd0I would like to learn more about it08:17
n4nd0SO is applied in RL according to what I have heard08:17
pluskidfor example?08:18
n4nd0for navigation08:19
n4nd0like in order to optimize the best sequence of actions08:19
n4nd0but I have not found more stuff beyond mentions like that one08:20
pluskidok, I see08:20
n4nd0pluskid: thinking of doing a new patch for shogun or already working on sth?08:30
pluskidreading papers08:30
pluskidyou have done a lot of improvements to shogun these days! :D08:32
n4nd0not that many08:32
pluskidI'm trying to figure out some basic stuffs related to SO implementations08:34
pluskidand what is already there in shogun08:34
n4nd0I see08:34
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wizneelany ideas for how to integrate c5.0 as shogun macchine09:27
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wizneelany body here going for integrating c509:39
pluskidthere seems to be lots of discussions related to C5.0 on the mailing list09:40
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KMHI am almost done with my application except the "set yourself up" part. I downloaded shogun using git in my cygwin.09:42
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PhilTilletHey :)10:17
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KMHI set up most of it10:24
KMHbut I get shogun/base/init.h not found10:24
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emreceliktenHello all!11:00
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n4nd0sonney2k: I hope there is no problem with my answer in the mailing list about the "patch's deadline"12:07
emreceliktenOh so you're Fernando12:09
emreceliktenWell that's good to know if it is as you say.12:09
n4nd0I remember that someone already asked around here in IRC about a deadline for a patch12:10
n4nd0I just transmitted that answer ;)12:11
emreceliktenThanks :)12:12
n4nd0no problem12:14
n4nd0wiking: around?12:19
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gsomixblackburn, yo12:47
blackburnhey there12:47
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karlnapfsonney2k, blackburn, around?12:57
blackburnkarlnapf: yeap12:57
karlnapfJust working on subsets and thinking of the case when the subset is larger than the number of features12:57
karlnapfshould we allow this?12:57
karlnapfthen people could kind of "duplicate" features12:57
karlnapfbut I dont know if that might kill something else12:58
blackburnsomething like12:58
blackburn1 2 1?12:58
blackburndo you think it makes sense?12:59
karlnapfif you want to have duplicate features for some reason13:00
karlnapfno it makes no sense i guess13:00
blackburnif there was at least one use case of that..13:00
blackburnfor training NNs probably13:01
karlnapfMMh I think I will put an error message and if people complain I will allow it13:02
blackburnyeah sure13:03
blackburnthey didn't yet, right?13:04
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karlnapfhehe :)13:05
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pluskidrepetition sometimes can be used as poor man's way of doing re-weighting of samples13:14
pluskidbut not all algorithm can work with duplicated data13:15
pluskidfor re-weighting, I mean, for example, you have 1000 positive samples but only 10 negative samples13:18
blackburnyeah but it is rather poor13:18
@sonney2kkarlnapf, don't try to solve a problem we don't have yet :D13:23
@sonney2kpluskid, yeah I used that too :D13:23
karlnapfsonney2k, yeah, sounds like a good idea :)13:23
karlnapfpluskid, I also did that at some -late night bugfixing and not knowing wheres the error-point13:24
karlnapf :)13:24
pluskidyou mean duplication of data was causing errors? :p13:25
karlnapfno I was searching why my methos did not work and duplicated data to check if the results were consistent13:27
pluskidAh, I see13:27
karlnapfso it finally helped my finding the error ;)13:27
karlnapfbut this is all not how it should be I guess13:27
pluskidmaybe only work for some particular case/algor13:28
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blackburnsonney2k: what is # of proposals btw?13:32
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@sonney2kmaybe 3513:38
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@sonney2kno idea13:38
pluskidthat's a big number!13:39
pluskidthe quality and quantity of proposals will affect how many slots you get, I guess13:39
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PhilTillethi sonney2k :)13:49
@sonney2kblackburn, I get about 8 emails about updated/new proposals per hour now...13:50
blackburnsonney2k: yeah I guess it will be 16 this evening13:51
blackburnI have to update my proposal as well13:51
blackburnsonney2k: things stay the same, right? you said last year there were a lot of proposal before deadline13:53
emreceliktensonney2k: Sorry for the spam :/13:53
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emrecelikten38 proposals... So, the probability of being accepted for a candidate is roughly 0.1316 then13:54
emreceliktenassuming 5 slots13:54
emreceliktenand equal chance for everybody13:54
n4nd038 proposals! that's a good number I guess13:55
wikingn4nd0: you were looking for me13:55
n4nd0wiking: I needed git support a moment13:56
wikingn4nd0: sure shoot13:56
n4nd0wiking: I did a pull request without rebasing master, later I rebase in my master and in my branch but when I wanted to push I got the error of non-fast forward allowed13:56
n4nd0wiking: they suggested me to pull13:57
n4nd0wiking: I asked blackburn and he told me that pulling was the best option probably13:57
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wikingn4nd0: yep you'll need to do a pull first in order to do the sync with your remote repo on github13:58
n4nd0wiking: idk if that would make a problem related to the pull request though, like sending commits done by other people13:58
wikingit won't include the other commits13:58
@sonney2klast year we had more than 70 though13:58
wikingof other people.... just yours and the merging13:58
n4nd0wiking: I am going to try now, let's see13:59
pluskidn4nd0: delete your remote branch and push again14:03
n4nd0pluskid: no need to do that :)14:03
emreceliktenI'm looking for ideas to make a patch about. Suggestions are welcome :)14:04
n4nd0emrecelikten: yes14:05
n4nd0emrecelikten: so I have recently added CoverTree support for KNN14:05
n4nd0emrecelikten: a CoverTree if just an structure that allows to do faster k-neares neighbors, just in case you didn't hear about it (it was new for me too a couple of weeks ago)14:05
n4nd0emrecelikten: I would like to see some examples of benchmarking, that shows that CoverTree is actually faster than the KNN we had before14:06
n4nd0emrecelikten: something like that ^14:06
n4nd0blackburn, sonney2k: do you think guys that could be a good idea for a patch?14:07
blackburnn4nd0: I admit you become as lazy as me haha14:07
n4nd0blackburn: haha :P I was planning to start with LARS or other thing then ;)14:07
blackburnah yeah14:07
blackburnn4nd0: btw probably I can suggest you some other way of obtaining lasso pathwise solution14:08
n4nd0blackburn: tell me14:09
blackburnfrom the SLEP that was referred by pluskid before14:09
n4nd0blackburn: ok, I took a look to the page14:09
pluskidn4nd0: so you solved with a git pull? :)14:09
n4nd0blackburn: which one do you like?14:09
emreceliktenOkay, thanks. So I need to make some benchmarking tests then? How am I going to do it? Sample Octave programs?14:09
n4nd0emrecelikten: the good thing here is that you may have freedom to select the language you want to use, if you like octave, octave would be cool14:10
n4nd0pluskid: yeah, it add an empty merge but fixed it :)14:10
emreceliktenOkay, good14:10
emreceliktenn4nd0: Thanks! :)14:10
n4nd0the only issue is that this is not yet in the central repository14:10
blackburnn4nd0: actually group/tree/etc lasso are my task14:10
n4nd0I have submitted the pull request this morning14:11
blackburnn4nd0: but you can do simple L114:11
n4nd0blackburn: how could we fix this? so emrecelikten can do some benchmarking with cover tree even if it is not yet merged?14:11
blackburnn4nd0: he can git pull git:// yourbranchwithcovertree14:11
* emrecelikten is taking notes14:12
n4nd0emrecelikten: then that is probably the best to do14:12
pluskidn4nd0: cool. I also got similar problem, I solved by deleting the remote branch on my github and push the new local branch there again -- an alternative solution :p14:13
n4nd0pluskid: good to know :)14:13
n4nd0emrecelikten: you can create a new branch locally and pull mine's14:13
emreceliktenOkay, I will do this then. Maybe tonight or tomorrow, it will definitely be done until Sunday14:14
n4nd0emrecelikten: ok, probably to use a famous dataset like iris,, for the benchmarking would be interesting14:15
@sonney2kn4nd0, look at mldata.org14:15
emreceliktenWill do14:16
@sonney2k<ad>enough datasets all in a format easy to read </ad>14:16
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n4nd0sonney2k: thanks!14:19
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PhilTilletI am tired :p15:35
n4nd0PhilTillet: of?15:36
PhilTilletof nothing15:37
PhilTilletI am just exhausted15:37
n4nd0aham I see15:38
n4nd0see you later guys15:39
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gsomixsonney2k, hello16:09
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gsomixI completed proposal.16:25
gsomixand I'm happy16:26
n4nd0gsomix: :)16:27
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emreceliktenHere comes another proposal update email :P16:36
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emreceliktenI'm curious about the amount of Dunning-Kruger effect in this programming skills self-assessment thing in proposals16:54
emreceliktenEspecially in Shogun's 1-5 scale16:55
blackburnI put a 4 to shogun actually16:55
blackburncan it be an artifact of that effect? :)16:55
emreceliktenDepends :P16:56
emreceliktenbut seriously, I know people that could put 4 to their C++ skills although they have used it less than half the amount16:58
emreceliktenI said 216:58
emreceliktenhalf the amount that I used it*16:59
n4nd0that's probably why it is always better to show one's skills and let others assess them17:02
n4nd0at least in my opinion of course ;)17:03
emreceliktenThat's true, but if a student has no way of/time for showing it and the organization thinks that self-assessed scores are important then it's risky17:06
blackburnI don't think it is the case17:06
emreceliktenYou might end up with a Dunning-Kruger'ed 2 while rejecting a Dunning-Kruger'ed 4 :P17:06
emreceliktenWell not in here, of course17:06
emreceliktensince you have to submit a patch :)17:06
blackburnwe have a lot of students there that showed their skills :)17:06
* n4nd0 is looking up what Dunning-Kruger means ...17:07
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emreceliktenn4nd0: It's a cognitive bias17:07
emreceliktenn4nd0: Unskilled people over-estimate their abilities while skilled people do the exact opposite17:07
emreceliktenIt's really interesting17:08
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genixbut the converse is not true.17:31
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emreceliktengenix: How? It says that "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the  self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others"17:33
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pluskidcrafted a new proposal (so one more spam to the inbox of all the mentors) :p18:11
pluskidtime for sleep here, g9t all18:11
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n4nd0good night or whatever it's there :P18:19
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PhilTilletsonney2k, did you have some time to try my patch?18:49
blackburnsonney2k: libsvm was released on April,1st, I will diff it and update accordingly19:04
blackburnsonney2k: nothing changed19:19
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@sonney2kalright then 47 proposals...19:44
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emreceliktensonney2k: I had a question about C5.020:07
emreceliktensonney2k: How long do you think that project will take?20:13
emreceliktensonney2k: I don't think it will be longer than 5 weeks for a student working full time20:14
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@sonney2kemrecelikten, hopefully not - I had in mind other tree implementations then20:15
@sonney2ke.g. port j45 / id3 ...20:15
n4nd0sonney2k: I am sorry if you get mails for every update :S20:15
@sonney2kno worries you will be busy20:16
@sonney2kwere just a couple of hundred today20:16
emreceliktensonney2k: Very good. But I have prepared my proposal assuming that I will only be working on C5.0 for 10 weeks, I hope that's okay? I included that I thought it would be over much sooner and I would be able to take additional tasks in it though20:18
* genix have returned from dance floor. Again.20:22
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n4nd0So I think that the deadline is over now!21:02
n4nd0How many proposals at the end?21:03
n4nd0Did we reach 50?21:03
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PhilTilletyes, deadline is over :p21:14
PhilTilletthe line is dead21:14
@sonney2kfinal number is 4821:17
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@sonney2kfrom 38 students21:19
@sonney2klast years acceptance rate of students was rather high (almost 30% )21:21
n4nd0Pie charts rock!21:26
PhilTilletsonney2k, is there any other patch I can work on until next week, or are you already overwhelmed with patches? :p21:29
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CIA-64shogun: Evgeniy Andreev master * r3e38b9e / src/interfaces/python_modular/swig_typemaps.i : fixed stupid bug with 'if' statement -
CIA-64shogun: Evgeniy Andreev master * r708770a / (171 files in 2 dirs): fixed examples and removed 'xrange' from -
CIA-64shogun: Soeren Sonnenburg master * raa97c39 / (172 files in 3 dirs):21:39
CIA-64shogun: Merge pull request #427 from gsomix/python3_interface21:39
CIA-64shogun: Convert python examples to be python3 compatible -
gsomixshogun-buildbot, I rely on you.21:41
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shogun-buildbotbuild #619 of octave_static is complete: Failure [failed git]  Build details are at  blamelist: gsomix@gmail.com21:58
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shogun-buildbotbuild #620 of octave_static is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at
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n4nd0_sonney2k: hi! I am making the fixes for KNN right now, sorry for the conventions I didn't follow!22:39
n4nd0_sonney2k: apart from that, do you think it is ok?22:39
@sonney2kn4nd0_, as usual yes - and don't worry.22:44
n4nd0_sonney2k: :) do you have any suggestion to work on after this?22:46
n4nd0_sonney2k: is LARS ok or any other algorithm for lasso path? any other thing of interest?22:47
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@sonney2kn4nd0_, what would help us most is to fix the test suite23:00
@sonney2kn4nd0_, so run and determine the examples that don't work23:00
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@sonney2kthen figure out why by running -d filename.py23:01
@sonney2kto enter debug mode when sth is not the same23:01
@sonney2kp a will print object a23:01
@sonney2kp b will print object b23:01
@sonney2kand then one can check where they differ /how23:02
n4nd0_ok, I will take a look to that then23:04
shogun-buildbotbuild #446 of python_modular is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at
gsomixshogun-buildbot, thanks.23:08
n4nd0_good night people23:10
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gsomixsonney2k, moin.23:10
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gsomixsonney2k, can I switch to work with octave modular (sparse matrix typemap)? what else is needed for the python3 interface?23:13
@sonney2kgsomix, I don't know - I assume all examples run again?23:18
@sonney2kif so go ahead and do the octave modular sparse typemap.23:19
@sonney2kask if you want a hint :D23:19
gsomixsonney2k, hint? :]23:19
@sonney2kgsomix, help or so23:20
gsomixsonney2k, I see. I thought that you have special hint for this.23:22
@sonney2kbtw you should also fix the python_static examples' print stuff23:22
gsomixsonney2k, ok.23:22
@sonney2kgsomix, well look at how it is done in interfaces/octave_static/OctaveInterface.cpp23:22
@sonney2kfunction COctaveInterface::get_sparse_matrix23:23
@sonney2kbasically copy and paste and rename this stuff and you are done23:23
@sonney2kah and note that sparse matrices can only be of double type in octave23:24
gsomixsonney2k, tnx. you make my life easier. :)23:27
gsomixgood night, guys23:36
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--- Log closed Sat Apr 07 00:00:15 2012